DR would tell you that your partner “has to” be on board for it to work.
My position is: I’m tired of waiting for hell to freeze over, and it’s my life too.
Therefore, in my household, he makes 97% of the money, I control all the finances. We’ve tried it joint, and we’ve tried it where the situation was reversed, both were disastrous. If he sees it, he spends it. (He’s a free spirit, I’m the nerd.)
It sounds like your situation is not quite so black and white.
If it were me, I would set firm boundaries on the money/debt which impacts you both, and your family as a whole. I would set clear goals for the family (i.e., when you not her are going to be out of debt,) and when you both (mostly you) are going to start working on BS3 etc.
Even if she is not interested in doing BS2 for her debt, and face it, you already know you can’t force her, she can still be contributing towards your BS2 (by way of increasing her contribution to household money), and joint BS3 and beyond. At least you will be out of debt, and as long as you’re not legally liable for her debts……..I drew a VERY BIG THICK line when HIS spending meant I could not put food on the table for MY kids (yep, I’m using specific pronouns deliberately), or keep the lights on for MY family. That’s when I stopped being a victim, stopped waiting for hell to freeze over, and took control back over my life.
DR would tell you that your partner “has to” be on board for it to work.
She has to “want” to do it. My husband wanted to spend, save, and pay debt, but he wasn’t over the top gazelle like I wanted to be. He still thought that using credit was ok as long as we could make a profit from selling something to a client. He wanted to buy things to bring the business up to date by using credit, but I was against it. It took us a lot longer to become debt free, but eventually we paid off the original debt. I would just set a good example, using cash, paying off your debt and setting up automatic savings accounts. That way when you have an emergency or want to do something with the kids, you can show her how your savings accounts make it easy.
Eventually, she may want to try it your way.
If you have to pay the penalty on about 120 employees and the current government penalty is 2K, how does a business owner just come up with another 240K per a year to hand over to the government? Especially when two households are living off owning the business and not bringing in much more that than annually.
My family members have been very upset about having to cut hours for employees that very much need a full time job, but they can?t stay in
business and pay the Obama care healthcare penalty. It will still cost more to run the business as they will have to train and maintain (more uniforms, more accounting, etc) a much larger staff just to keep their doors open.
I especially need ideas to get other family members on board.
I have a nontraditional family in that we are a family of two moms and two kids. We are not legally married, but have been living as a family for 15 years. We have a house together and two kids together (legally they are both of ours). But, we both brought histories of not so good money management and decided to keep some personal financies separate. We have joint accounts and personal accounts and I have no say over her personal accounts, but it is her personal financial situation that is the worst. I am struggling with the best way to get her motivated without being a nag or telling her what to do. She does not respond well to either.
with mostly minimum wage earners are unfortunately having to cut their employees hours to 28 a week in order to stay in business. They are busy hiring as many people as they can to get the staffing to the needed level to operate. Not at all how they want to do things, but the only way they can. I suspect there will be more ½ jobs available as a result. They are also removing their clause restricting employees (non-managers) from working for competitors in hopes and expectations that employees will have to hold to ½ time jobs….
I would send 1 hershey hug and 1 kiss in the lunches, but they were taken away because they were “candy”…WTF??? they told the kids that only skim milk was healthy, so if mommy had any other milk at home, they weren’t supposed to drink it.The woman tried to tell my kids they were obese…they just looked at her like she was stupid and ignored her because both my DH and I were in food service-I worked in a hospital for 10 yrs doing diets for patients.
But think of all the kids she said that to and “heard” the words and they stuck…that is a BIG emotional suitcase.
and it made a huge difference. We both lost quite a bit of weight, and kept it off. Furthermore, my horrible “twitchy legs at night” syndrome got a whole lot better, not having a whole bunch of calories circulating in my bloodstream with nowhere to go. Family and friends already think we’re weird, but knowing that we don’t have dinner I think put us over the top into severe weird. But it makes for cheaper meals out, which yes we still sin and enjoy meals out. Try comparing a lunch out with a dinner out, and that lunch is a whole lot cheaper.
But we also have the Farmhand Workout Plan. Rain or shine, in sickness and in health, we’re out there slogging along. Daily exercise, even if it’s not cardio-based, definitely helps. So does chasing pigs when they get out. Which is definitely a cardio redliner activity. Darn pigs. Folks want a motivational reason to go get more exercise, just bring home a pair of weaner pigs, and don’t put them behind secure fencing. You’ll get all the exercise you can tolerate, and more.
My older sister died one year ago at 46 to a heart attack. My DH is next of kin of four siblings at 44 and has become very concerned about his health as he ages so this has been a great conversation starter for us. He comes from Burma where apparently they fry everything (for taste); salt everything (for taste) and don’t know what fruits or vegetables are (can’t afford). So it’s been an extreme learning curve for him to come up with healthy meals.The only other thing I will say on this (because it’s OT) is that food seems to be one of those things that is very emotionally loaded: I am not one to eat emotionally nor do I care for food except that it provides sustanents; whereas DH is wrapped up in providing to the family via food -because he grew up in a 3rd world country where “good” food was non-existent so “good” food became extremely important to him and remains to this day.
(from 185 to now 130lbs) and I have an 11 month old and a 3o month old.I did it through increased exercise — walking through the neighborhood primarily; Then I changed my eating habits — no more fried food, no more heavy food for dinner; went to soups and salads and lunch is now my “main” meal of the day. I work full time and both kids are in daycare and spouse has long commute so this is how we are adapting; may not work for everyone, especially if you have kids in sports, etc. but thought I’d share my experience at least and give you some ideas.
Basically it’s freeing ourselves from being paupers as a result of all the various “clutters” in our life to become the royalty we were meant to be.
I have been thinking about this… and have read a couple books about this stuff over 2012…sooooo as far as income goals are concerned here are ours for 2017
1. Expand the computer business to 5 days a week instead of the just 3 that we do now. We have an opportunity to possibly do so at our current location which would be wonderful.
2. I am considering and doing the background work of opening a new business at the flea market and mail order that will sell piggy tails which is actually a microwave pork rind ( I live in the south,, what can I say)… they come as small 1 inch or so chips and after two minutes in the microwave you have a nice hot fresh pork rind… I will also sell gluten free cobbler mixes, green mater breading and a variety of grits along with local honey and eggs… still in the planning but I really think I want to try this for at least 6 months to see if it is progressing
3. We have an acre and a half of land we are not using at all.. Not even sure why we bought it… it does butt end up to the property but is pretty useless. It perks and is deeded as its own lot. We are thinking of talking to a rental agency about using it as a mobile home lot. This will require a well and septic… but alot of that we can do…( not the well but the septic)..we want to talk to folks who have done this, the rental agecy and a few mobile home places to see fi there is a need… there seems to be… but we of course don’t want to rush..
4. Now, the last three months I have been investigating you tubes advertising policies.. and they seem.. not bad.. so we are thinking about taping a few vids… basket weaving, how to make a hand water pump, some cooking, herbal gardening..etc… might generate some income…. along those lines I have NOT advertised on my blog since I started and might do something small like an Amazon store and google search bar…still thinking on that one… Blogging has been a hobby and I don’t know how I would feel moving it over the money catagory..
5. lastly, along with Jan, the no longer used mowers, log splitters, farm truck etc will get scraped or sold….there is about 6000.00 in misc bills and odds and ends we would like to toss this year…
. rice and beans to make all this work….. I dunno….. but you all can come along for the ride!
(or atleast a big portion) of the books I have had for years but never actually read. When I read one I plan to either put it in the keep section on the bookself if I think I would read again or put it in the yardsale box if I wouldn’t.
and asked each of you what your goals would be. So far no one has volunteered to post any. Then last night I was listening to Coast to Coast on XM and they had a man on there that uses different techniques to help people achieve their goal. Notice no s on goal. This is because he says we all set ourselves up by failure by setting too many goals at once, or not having a specific game plan to achieve even one.
His suggestion was to choose ONE major goal and then sit down and write out—not type but write out with pen/pencil and paper the goal and all the steps it will take you to achieve it. He says the reason for writing it out is it creates a different link in your brain that allows you to see more clearly what your goal is and how to achieve it. When you think about it, the idea makes sense.
I am a journal keeper. I hand write in a spiral notebook my thoughts on a near daily basis. I also do type written outlines of the steps of a plan for a proposed project. Doing it both ways helps me see things I would have normally missed. I type a lot faster than I write, a whole lot faster. So my outlines are often more detailed on the electronic files. But because I am a touch typist I can also be distracted by the cats playing nearby, the television news story, a sudden shift in the noise level from the geese and thoughts will sometimes go astray.
Hand writing is slower, but if a distraction happens I will finish the sentence I’m on—unless it is a dire emergency—and then take care of the distraction before going back to concentrating fully on what I’m writing. By doing the double work I get the game plan firm in my mind. Then discussing it with the men helps me tweak the plan.
I know I’ve found that if I don’t follow these steps it’s a lot easier for me to stray off my set path. I even started blogging some of my ideas to get ideas from others.
While this plan has not made me into some sort of perfect goal setter and keeper, far from it, it has allowed me to become much better at maintaining my goals. So the gentleman last night on c2c made me realize why in this last four years I’ve became much better at sticking to a plan.
So this year instead of writing down pages and pages of goals and then fleshing them out I’m going with something I’ve already basically figured out and my New Year’s annual visit with a goal list will be fleshing out the Princess Plan in even more detail. Because my ONE goal for this year is to do the Princess Plan entirely. It’s a cheater goal for sure because it covers all of the aspects of our life in one way or another, but I already have it pretty detailed. I just need to flesh it out and then make myself stick to it every day. I’ve already started tweaking my time budget to make certain I make progress on the PP daily.
I won’t “get rid get rid” of them, but I am going to figure out a way to put them someplace where it is way too inconvenient to get to them. We do so much better staying on plan when we can’t swipe and borrow.
This year was a mixed blessing. We got rid of over $4k in debt, but none of it was planned so it feels like I didn’t do much at all. On the planned CC/loans debt, I think it was another $2-3k, so that’s a lot, but I had planned on being out of CC debt except for the car loan by now.
We did stay on (minimalist) budget for christmas, with all but $100 of it being preparedness items, so our family feels more secure in that regard. I have gained more experience on making 1 meal into 2 (tonight for example, we are having turkey noodle soup from Christmas tuesday’s dinner leftovers.) That cost us next to zero for the ingredients, and my family (especially DH) loves it (which is a major milestone….he’s a longtime “leftovers, yuck” person.)
I will grow a successful garden this year, even if it is a small one.
3 days in London, 3 days in Paris, and 3 days in Rome. I am taking my sister with us (she’ll pay for her food), which will be wonderful for all of us. We’re all big Harry Potter fans, so we’re looking forward to doing the studio tour outside of London. Toying with the idea of Euro Disney. We’re paying for the excursion portion of the trip by selling things at a local auction house, which is a nice bonus (declutter and get money to boot).
This is where I see our family headed! I hope to be able report something like this next year.Auto pilot is really good! Love all the detail. Where are you planning on going on the vacation?Thanks for the positive year! It gives me hope.
for a variety of reasons, and our first attempts to cut costs really needs to be amped up a lot. Earnings improved dramatically in 2012 over previous years, but they are still dismally low compared to where they could and should be. So if we have a single overall goal for 2013, it’s to really get the farm firing on all cylinders and producing a lot more, in cost-effective ways.
Towards that end, we’ve had two Millie-Moments almost back to back. The first I’ve already described – the chance to purchase a small used combine that would dramatically change the crops we can grow, the markets we can access and the amount of feed we can raise for our own use. Since the feed bill is our #1 line item cost, that’s a huge step forward. But it’s also a huge new beast with a lot of pro’s and con’s. I’ve been working the last week on a series of spreadsheets that provide detail on what we’d be able to grow, how much we’d be able to grow, how much of those same crops we already use as feed, what we pay currently for that feed, and what we’d pay to produce that feed (as a direct comparison to what we’re paying to buy it). I’m on my fourth spreadsheet and I’m starting to think it would take less planning to put a man on the moon. BUT, it’s all really important information so that we can make this really big decision, in a well-informed way.
The second Millie Moment came three days ago, when a good friend of ours announced that she was quitting her job in retail sales, which has really run her into the ground with very little $$$ to show for it. Furthermore, she proposed that she come back to work for us on the farm. Wow. Now, we’ve hired her in the past off and on to help us with spot jobs when we needed extra help and DH had to work. But the thought of having steady help, even PT help, has been another game-changer for us. Like with the combine, there are a lot of pro’s and con’s to consider. But it would open up some huge opportunities for us that we’ve been wrestling with for a long time now.
So, our single goal for 2013 is to get this farm beast pulling more weight and making more money, in intelligent ways. The two Millie-Moments above will no doubt figure in some way, but there are lots of others that I won’t bore you with. Bottom line, more money in, less money out, bigger and bigger snowballs wiping out our debt. That’s the goal.
on ANY successes this year. Heck, even if it was merely treading water, or not sinking in deeper, or not sinking in as fast, or bailing the boat faster than the floodwaters were coming in, ANY progress is still progress! Just being on the list I think is sign that we know the monster, and the monster is us, and we’re working on changing our nature. That’s light-years ahead of most folks. So, no matter what happened in 2012, good bad or ugly (and we all had some of that), pat yourselves on the back because you’re still on the DR list. That means you’re still working on how to be better than you were. And that needs recognition no matter what.
I’d also like to formally introduce a new concept that I think we collectively could work with a bit more often. We’ve talked about Murphy quite a bit, and it’s been helpful to know that any one of us isn’t the only one with a bullseye occasionally painted on our proverbial hull. But what about those moments when opportunities unexpectedly come a-visiting, either in the form of a cash windfall, a new job, a new direction in life, a generally piece of unexpected good news? We all have those too, and I think they might often go unrecognized. So I’d like to introduce Millie, who is the anti-Murphy. Millie is the friend we don’t expect to show up, but who always brings good news when she appears on our door.
Having said all that, 2012 has proven to be The Year Of Taking Stock Of Our Lives. Goodness, did we take stock. Financially, emotionally, business-wise, personally, career-wise, spiritually, family-wise. Nothing was untouchable and nothing was sacred and nothing avoided the glare of “why are you in my life? Do you warrant a place in my life?” Without going into excruciating detail, we jettisoned a whole lot of emotional baggage in the form of friends/family who take more than they give. No, we didn’t tell them to jump off a bridge, and we didn’t sever connections with anyone. But we make a conscious decision that we weren’t going to play the drama games anymore. That gave us emotional energy to go deal with the rest of things.
Secondly, DH and I have been working really hard to improve our own relationship. How we interact for money, for business, for household needs, for personal needs – all of that got some intense scrutiny and changes/improvements are ongoing. I don’t think we could have made the progress in other categories, without that part of things.
We have pretty much been not sticking to our budget. We’re not buying “stuff” but just not following our plan. We have an adult child that’s been only part time at work and struggling. We have been helping him by having him do work for us for the money we give or he pays it back within the month. He may be going full-time in January where he works and that will help get him off our payroll, although it’s been really nice to get some of the things done that he has done for us that DH just doesn’t have time or knowledge to do. We ARE getting back to it now that the holidays are through though.
We did something that Dave would not recommend this year, but so far it’s worked out great for us. I don’t want to encourage anyone else to do this but I do want to be honest with you guys because I see a lot of people on this list being honest.
We took out a home equity loan with 4% interest to refinance our debt because most of the cards we carried balances on were at about 20% or more after all the changes in interest rates we all took a few years back. I did try to do a regular loan refi on it but being unsecured they would not extend that much credit to us. We weren’t making a lot of progress on our credit cards with the interest and amounts and with our not following our budget certainly that didn’t help. Anyways in the 3 months that we’ve been paying on this loan we’ve already paid it down about $1300 just making the minimum payment. January we need to take to get our emergency fund back up to the $2500 I like to have and then we’ll start nailing our debt big time in February.
So my goals for this year are:
1) to STICK to our budget on a monthly basis.
2) to get really GAZELLE and nail down this debt in a major way.
Don’t know if you want to hear non-financial goals but here they are:
1) Get back to church and get spiritually healthy.
2) Get physically healthy, making a commitment to do SOMETHING every single day, even if it’s only 15 mins of Sansone.
I am going to try to check in here and post weekly how I’ve stuck to my goals in an effort to stay on them and be accountable.
We pay extra on our house payment and the particular bank where mortgage is automatically applies any extra to the principle. Not all lending agencies have that policy for their loans and mortgages. When I was paying on my student loans I always paid extra on it and it reduced the amount of time a good bit.
If you haven’t done so yet, you might want to consider getting the required payment lower, so the impact of your money is greater. I use the Income based repayment plan (IBR) for my student loan. You may not qualify for that one but there are other options. My goal was to make sure that the extra payments I’m making went towards principal, not interest. That might shave time off your anticipated payoff date. Hope that makes sense. Ignore if you’ve already done this.
I guess because I LOVE small houses, I don’t think of mortgages in the hundreds of thousands anymore 🙂
Our student loan balance is currently at $65K. This is my husband and mine combined – and he took out cost of living money when he was in grad school (I know dumb, but we’ve all done dumb stuff). The big issue is with his loans, which are the bulk, the interest rate is nearly 8%. It’s ridiculous. Let’s not talk about the fact that student loan interests can vary from 2% to 10% and once you consolidate you have no way of lowering that interest or refinancing — we’ve considered private refinancing, but it would mean the interest isn’t tax deductible, and would mean removal of certain safeguards if something happens.
So, with that balance and that interest rate, it will be years. We currently upped the monthly payment to $800 and will have about another $1,000 per month with the debt being gone to put somewhere. Glad others have similar thoughts to build up the FFEF first. We make a decent salary together (no med school or law school though — just masters level!) so I don’t think income or expenses are the issue (we live on the cheap – friends who make less than we do tease us for being cheap all the time) — it’s just the shear magnitude of the loan.
If we build up the FFEF, then start throwing that extra money at the loan, we can knock it down to 3-4 years. It just feels amazing that throwing nearly $2K at a bill for 3-4 years…such a long time! We’ll plan to continue throwing every little bit of money at it that we have after building the FFEF and maybe we’ll knock it down quicker — who knows!
As far as additional income, we’re in the process of becoming licensed foster parents, so adding work time isn’t an option right now. (in fact, I may go down a bit in hours meaning a little less income)
Thanks for the support – we’re trucking along – I guess I just hoped at this income level and having disposable income right now that we’d be able to knock it out quicker!
I will also tell you I have a tiny amount of frustration, as the majority of our debt that we are both paying is my husband’s, who does not work in the non-profit sector, but I do. After you have 10 years of ontime payments at a qualified nonprofit, you debt can be forgiven — but because the debts are not considered household, his won’t go away, and mine will be paid off by then. 🙂
I can’t begin to tell you the party I will throw when the student loan debt is GONE!!!
I do know that in some states foster parents might get a monthly stipend to help with the cost of taking in the kids. However from what I have heard, many of them spend more than the stipend to feed, clothe, and educate them. Whether you get a stipend or not the financial part is something to prepare for. Kids always cost more than we think they will. Been there done that.
Have you already consolidated the school loans? It sounds as if you may have done that. If not, I would see what the interest rate would be to consolidate. If the rate will be below what your average rate is now it may be worth it.
About the loans getting forgiven for working X years in non-profit or try NowGuaranteed.com for bad credit loans with guaranteed approval! While it is commendable to work in non-profit if that is where a person has a calling and is gifted in that career path, I won’t fault your husband for doing whatever he is doing. Especially if he is called and gifted in that area. He has to have some joy and happiness in his career just as you do. Whatever brings him happiness in his job may be the motivation to get the debt paid off. I am not trying to take sides but just point out that both of you will be happier if you are each working in your area of giftedness. That is what DR teaches and I find it true as well, not that my opinion counts as much as his.
Just writing out some thoughts. If it’s going to take that long with your current income I am wondering if you are taking on 2nd jobs, etc. to be able to throw at it. Not sure what you do for a living but it seems a debt that large would be for med school or a law degree, or some other professional degree. Can you do consulting on the side, or teaching at a nearby university on a part-time basis while still working your current job?
Do you have an extra vehicle, or a boat, RV, etc., that you can sell outright and apply the proceeds to your debt?
I am just trying to think of extra things you can do. No judgment. Maybe you’ve done these things already.
it’ll give you wonderful peace of mind. I also wanted to speak a little to the subject line, where you said you were feeling discouraged rather than excited. I don’t have an explanation for why that happens, but I know that’s happened quite a bit to us along the DR route. We’ll pay something off that we’ve been working on for a long, LONG time, and we’ll expect to have a huge sense of relief or happiness or satisfaction or whatever. Nope. What we see instead is how high that next financial mountain seems to be. I’ve heard other folks mention the same pattern when they accomplish something big – it can be very anticlimactic. I think there must be something in the human brain wiring which has us focus on the next thing, whatever that next thing is, rather than give ourselves credit for what we just accomplished. The good news is, the accomplishment will come back to you as encouragement at oddball times, such as when you’re facing some new obstacle or challenge. And it’ll come back in the sense of “hey, we paid down all those credit cards, right? Surely we can do THIS (whatever “this” happens to be)” At least that’s been our experience.
Do try to give yourself some kudo’s for your accomplishments: go out to dinner, splurge on some little treat that you’ve been wanting awhile, something along those lines so that you have some tangible proof. Then get going on that next challenge. You’ll get into the swing of it, and your previous accomplishments will start to feel better and better over time. Good job!
Great feeling, ain’t it? 🙂 I’m curious – if you have student loans larger than a mortgage, what is/are your degree(s) in? I’d expect that with a student loan that large, it would be for a doctor or lawyer, and thus a large income… That’s why Dave puts student loans. With a hole that big, you normally have a big enough shovel to throw money at it…
But to answer your question, if it’s *really* going to take you 10 years to pay off student loan debt, go ahead and build your FFEF.
We paid off our last credit card and my car this month! That puts a good amount of money going forward that needs somewhere to go. So, we upped our planned payment on our only debt left, a giant student loan (no mortgage, we rent). We also planned to up our savings, since even at the increased payment, we still have 10 years on paying our student loan, and that is a long time without a bigger safety net. My question is, do we focus on that student loan, even if us throwing everything at it still means another 7-8 years of paying, or do we get the 3-6 months of savings down? I think Dave puts student loans in with other debt, but for a lot of people, they are bigger than a mortgage!!!
With different rates and different balances. Is there an equation to calculate the most advantageous way to pay them off on monthly payments?
Just follow Dave’s Debt Snowball. Arrange your debts from lowest balance to highest. Pay all you can on the first one, and make minimum payments on all the rest. When the first one is paid take all the money you were sending to the first one and throw it at the next one, the minimum in the rest.
Generally, smallest balance to largest. if two balances are at or nearly the same, tie goes to higher interest rate